Hugh Reilly (HR), the host of ThatChannel TV'S Liquid Lunch segment, spent an October afternoon interviewing His Holiness Younus AlGohar (YAG), Steve Bell (S) and Mir Lali (ML) with his guest co-host, Ms Hildegard (H).
HR: Welcome everybody to Liquid Lunch. We've got a great show today and a great audience here as well. I just want to welcome the audience here today. We are privileged to have His Holiness Younus AlGohar here. Thank you for joining us here at ThatChannel.
YAG: Thank you for inviting me.
HR: We also have Mr Lali, who is the Chairman of the Messiah Foundation International, and Steve Bell - who flew here from the UK - President of the Messiah Foundation UK. And Hildegard Gmeiner is here too.
H: Hello. It is so nice to be here with you today!
HR: It's great to have you here. I just thought it would be perfect to have you be on the show today and actually getting a chance to speak with His Holiness.
H: Well, you see I think it is very important that we are all on the spiritual path more or less and we are all more or less having lack of awareness. We don't really know why someone needs to have a Guru - there are all sorts of ideas in people's minds. Maybe today - and I understand that you are here on Sunday in Toronto as well - people will come to learn and understand more what is a Guru, how can you help us who are now on the spiritual path. So thank you for the privilege of being in your presence again today.
YAG: Thank you very much for your appreciation.
HR: Before we can start - because I am sure there are people who are tuning in who may not be familiar with your work or with the Messiah Foundation International - maybe you could just tell us a bit about your background and the Messiah Foundation.
YAG: Messiah Foundation International is a multicultural, multi-religion, multi-faith and purely spiritual institution. We advocate spiritual knowledge, spiritual sciences, mutual love and love for humanity. We share our knowledge, our energies with people of all religions, people of all different cultures and backgrounds. The beauty of the MFI institution is that everybody who joins stays whoever he or she is. We just top them up with spirituality.
HR: Well, everybody needs a top-up now and then!
H: If you look at my face, you will know. I needed a top-up last week!
HR: Well it's a week late but you might just get a top-up!
H: No, I think the top-up comes at the right time.
HR: So you're here in Toronto and you were here - I guess it was in the spring when we had the opportunity to chat with you last time. Now are you going to be speaking about anything different this time or bringing any new information for people?
YAG: Actually, spirituality is a vast subject and there are so many points and things that we need to discuss every now and then. I am not going to tell them a new message, I will just tell them more about spirituality and a little deeper insight into how to spiritualise our life, how to put everything into practice and how to reap the benefits of spiritual knowledge, of the spiritual path.
HR: We've got 5 of us sitting here on camera, so guys I would like to encourage all of us to participate in this conversation about spirituality because it's a big topic and it's an important topic. And it's a controversial topic.
YAG: It is.
HR: Because there are lots of different faiths and it seems like there are lots of places on the Earth where different faiths come into conflict. A lot of people have died over conflict of faith. So let's get into it and find out what the solutions might be. One of the things I guess you will be talking about is the Sufi Path. My understanding of the Sufi Path - which isn't a lot - is that it traditionally comes from the Muslim faith. But maybe you could elaborate on that a little bit?
YAG: We exclusively do not represent the Sufi Path. However, we acknowledge the importance and existence of the Sufi Path. We appreciate the Sufi Path being the right thing within the religion. However, what we advocate is the pure form of spirituality which has nothing to do with any religion.
H: I'm confused about the difference between the Mystic and the Sufi. They're oftentimes thrown into the same basket as being the same. Could you elaborate a little bit on that, and the difference between spirituality and religion?
YAG: Now there are two questions. Number one, it's about the terminology that often transliterators use: mystic, the divine seeker or spiritualist. Mystic is to do with one who practises something hidden from common people. Hidden knowledge.
HR: Occult, even.
YAG: It doesn't necessarily have to be occult, but something hidden and for some reason they think that it should not be openly discussed.
H: I've heard now that all the mysticism is to be openly discussed; we have now arrived at a time in human evolution maybe even cosmic evolution that the mystics actually have to come forth and share their information more openly. How is this helpful to us?
YAG: It is very helpful. Actually, we have to see the source of the knowledge. If the source of knowledge is divinity, then anything that comes from divinity will definitely benefit people and people will come to no harm.
H: So how does a mystic distinguish whether it has come from a divine source?
YAG: I'm concerned about the use of this word, mystic. People who translated from other languages into the English language, they have used this word to describe a spiritual man. However, it's not what it reflects. The shadows of the meaning of the word are totally different from what a spiritual man is.
H: What is a spiritual man/woman?
YAG: A spiritual man is like me, Steve and Hugh Reilly and a spiritual woman is like yourself. Those who take care of the needs of the spirit - you see, we are a compound creature. We have a body and a soul. A majority of people, they just take care of their body: beautification of their faces, skin and body. But some people go even further and they want to beautify their souls. They are concerned about the spiritual communication with angels, spiritual communication with God. So those who take care of their souls and their business and the spiritual nourishment of the souls, they are spiritual men and women.
H: Could you please elaborate a little bit about the importance of that and how ultimately - I'm assuming - it will benefit others? Not everybody knows that the human body is a vibrational field, is an energy, is a spirit. Could you explain that a little bit more for our viewers so that they understand the importance of spirituality to their day-to-day life?
YAG: Spirituality is very important in a sense that the period of time that we spend in this world is very little. Originally, our existence was confined to our soul and then we were sent into this world; a body was given to us and that soul is now living in our body. But this body will not be here forever; one day, we will stop living a physical life. But our spiritual existence will continue forever. Therefore we will pay more attention on issues of the spiritual dimensions of our life. This is so important because this physical representation of life is for a short period of time.
H: So is it just to be spiritual to ensure that I have a better life once I drop this garment or if I'm a spiritual man/woman and I understand the bigger cosmic picture, will I behave differently, making a different contribution hopefully to humanity?
YAG: You will behave differently. While your stay in this world, while your soul is inside your body and you are aware of the spiritual needs and necessities of your soul and you obtain the awareness, this life also will become beautiful. You will have access to many hidden truths and benefits that you may not be aware of when you're not a spiritual man or woman.
HR: So that points to one reason for being spiritual. One reason for developing your spirituality is to live a better life, for example. Now, there are other people that say that our eternal soul may depend how we develop our spiritual life - our afterlife might depend on how live this life. Is there a danger that if we don't develop our spiritual selves or if we don't follow the right spiritual path that our mortal soul might be in some kind of danger?
YAG: I'm not going to call it any potential danger, but it will be like a sense of deprivation. If you do not develop spiritual insight into this world, if you do not spiritualise your life and if you do not awaken and revive your souls, then there are a lot of benefits that you will be depriving yourself of. There is no potential danger but there is a sense of deprivation; you will be depriving yourself.
HR: I think people too, they go through life often - like Hildegard, myself and everyone - suffering I think is normal for human beings. And people try to deal with that, you know, 'How can I go through my life with less suffering even if I'm lacking certain things (physically and that sort of thing)?' Can you talk a little bit about how the [spiritual] path helps people to just be happier and suffer less on a day-to-day basis?
YAG: For example, Hildegard had a wonderful, near-death experience. If she was fully aware of the spiritual path and she had sufficient knowledge of spirituality, she would have known where her soul travelled to, and what she saw there. Because of the lack of spiritual knowledge, she doesn't have the entire picture of what she went through. If she was aware of the spiritual knowledge and spiritual awareness, she would have been sitting here with a little bit of a different understanding of spirituality.
H: But a lot of people suffer from that to the point that young families have children that get a label in one way or another because they shared information that the environment they're forced to live in in this body cannot relate to at all. That's personally a concern to me. How can the Messiah Foundation help these people educate themselves? Like I had to learn through my own challenge and learnt to listen to these young people in my life, in my immediate family. What can you say to people who are dealing with people who are [suffering from] all these diseases: bipolar disorder, attention deficit disorder, autism - there are so many things that are not understood in spite of all the medical and scientific research and medical technology we have. I wonder what you have to present to people who are challenged in these situations.
YAG: Messiah Foundation International is raising the awareness of this spiritual knowledge; at the same time we have the application of this spiritual knowledge. People can apply this knowledge of onto their life.
I would like to mention here the importance of spirituality in a common man's life. We have 5 senses and those 5 senses come from 5 different spirits that reside in our bosom. If those 5 souls inside our bosom are revived and enlightened, then there will be a protective system inside them, the source of which will be divine light and the divinity itself that we will be protected against all odds in this life and the potential diseases that we might catch. Like concurrently, Ebola is taking its toll and a lot of people are dying. A lot of people in Africa are dying. People who are coming from African countries into the United Kingdom, Canada, and the USA are carrying the risk of spreading this disease. However, if they had this protective system inside them - the divine energy inside them - the divine energy would have taken care of that virus. So it is, in a sense, beneficial for every common man to have a protective system inside him where there is a factory of divine light and that factory of divine light will keep on generating divine energy - and not only raise the awareness of the supreme essence, [but it will also] connect us to cosmic energies and supreme energies. At the same time we will be in the presence of God.
H: So how can people do that? I was under the understanding that religions were to bring that God-consciousness about. All religions. That may be wrong; that is my personal understanding. So nowadays, many people seem to go away from the traditional religion and look for something. How can they take that divine energy in if they do not take the time to attend the mosque or go to church to be in their traditional environment that was maybe set up to make that connection that goes beyond the physicality?
YAG: All these religions were given a little bit flavour of spirituality, not the whole of spirituality. With the help of that spiritual flavour in the religion, they were able to attain some status in spirituality. However, now spirituality is in front of people with the fullness of spirituality. People can now benefit from spirituality even without following any religion. The methodology is very simple: Initiation of the Heart. When the name of God enters the heart, it starts generating divine energy. That divine energy will awaken the souls one by one. That will bring a significant, very prominent change in one's life.
HR: And this what you will be doing here in Toronto? So people who are attending on Sunday will have the opportunity to have - correct me if I am wrong - the name of God written on their heart which will help, over time develop their spirituality, their spiritual protection and their relationship with God.
YAG: Yes. Personal relationship with God.
HR: Can you talk a little bit about where this process came from, this idea of writing the name of God?
YAG: This process came from His Divine Grace Lord Ra Riaz Gohar Shahi. He taught us this method.
HR: And you are His Representative?
YAG: I am His Representative.
HR: He has gone into occultation, is that right? Can you just talk a little bit about that? Because it seems like a curious concept. And maybe also a little bit about your relationship?
YAG: Okay. This is not the first time in history that somebody has gone into occultation. We have many examples in the history. For example, the messenger Elias; Elias is alive, he has gone into occultation. He is a messenger and he comes from Israel. Then there is another one: Prophet Enoch. He is also in occultation. Then we have Lord Jesus Christ and then we have His Divine Gohar Shahi [who] is in occultation. Occultation doesn't mean he is not present. It only means that He has sort of gone into disappearance form the common naked eye and there is a time - only he knows - fixed when he wants to show up to the world again.
HR: So that would be like - for example, Jesus Christ lived his life 2000 years ago and yet, after the resurrection, he is still around long after his physical, mortal human life lived. Is the same going to apply to His Divine Eminence RA Gohar Shahi? I don't know when hez was born but will he continue to be alive and around - though perhaps in occultation - for 100's of 1000's of years?
YAG: Well, I do not know whether what will happen. I know that he has not lived his life. He is living and he will show up very soon. I cannot speak on a subject that I do not know.
HR: Maybe you can talk a little bit about what is unique about the Goharian Doctrine for Humanity.
YAG: The unique thing about the Goharian Doctrine of Divine Love is that it doesn't have any religious touch. It is for everybody: the message of love, mutual respect, love for humanity, love for life. It is for everybody. There is no fanaticism in this; there is no extremism in this. There is no cult-type knowledge in this. There is not one personality cult. We're not roaming about one personality: there are different sources. We ask people to receive their energies from whatever source they are in love with. For example, Jesus.
HR: So people could continue to practise their own religion and yet benefit from this.
YAG: Yes, that's true. Like I earlier said, we just top them up with a little bit of spirituality, add some spices.
HR: Alright. Now, Steve and Mr Lali, do you want to bring up any topics that we can together discuss with His Holiness?
S: You hit the nail on the head, saying 'What's the difference between religion and spirituality?' I think that is the problem, because there shouldn't be any difference between religion and spirituality. And you were talking about happiness and I think these two things go together, because I believe that happiness is contentment. If you're not happy, you're not content. Not your body because your body is in so much luxury - but your soul is not content. Because the purpose of the soul is to love God. The religions that people [practise], they're doing the outward worship, they're reading books, they're kneeling, they're praying but they're not feeling the real benefits. They're not getting the spiritual touch, as you said. This is why people aren't content, people aren't happy. We feel that this contentment, this happiness will only come when the heart is reciting the name of God. And there will be no difference between religions and spirituality because they'll be topped up with His Eminence's methods of spirituality.
HR: Steve can you tell us the story of how you came to be involved in the Messiah Foundation? A story of epiphany, eureka or something like that?
S: As His Holiness said, this message is for all people of any religion - or no religion. As long as they want to love God and as long as they're interested in spirituality, then this message is for them. I came from a Catholic background - I don't want to run over that again, about the religion - but I didn't have the happiness and contentment that I wanted.
HR: And of course there are a lot of people in probably every religion that aren't as happy as they would really like to be.
S: That's true. And our message goes out to a lot of Mind, Body and Soul Expositions. We do a lot of talks. We actually visited the Unity Walk in Washington D.C. [recently]. So we're spreading the message that way. So I came across Messiah Foundation when they showed me the picture of Jesus. The real picture of Jesus - not the images we see in so many churches - and it just struck a chord with me. I just felt happy and content that this is the real image of Lord Jesus. The teachings - they just don't clash any religion. A hot topic of the moment is the Blood Moon.
HR: Yeah, I wanted to get in about the Blood Moon. Everybody is talking about the Blood Moon.
S: So if I just put the foundations on and then His Holiness will build the house?
HR: Okay, great. Let's talk about the Blood Moon - I'm not even sure what it means! What is a Blood Moon, first of all? Because you're looking at the Moon and it doesn't really look red or anything. Maybe you can tell us what it is and what it means.
YAG: It did turn red for some time.
HR: What's causing it and what's the significance of it?
YAG: I'm not an expert of how NASA sees this, or the scientific reasons for them. However we have some biblical texts about a red moon.
HR: There are some prophecies about them, aren't there?
YAG: Yeah. There are some books available in the market: a New York Time's Bestseller Book,Four Blood Moons. It is a wonderful book. John Haggie is the writer.
HR: And we're getting four Blood Moons now, aren't we?
YAG: We've already had two in 2014; another two in 2015. The significance of the Blood Moon is really alarming. In a nutshell, it means great change is on the way. And some experts on biblical text are also saying it will bring good news for Israel and the Jewish community. And it's wonderful.
HR: Well, right now it seems that there are a lot of people concerned about the events that are happening in the world. In some ways, things aren't looking good for Israel and anybody. We've got the Ebola crisis that is now threatening to move beyond Africa, we've got the situation in Iraq with the ISIS. Just the general unstable situation in that part of the world that threatens to bring everybody into maybe - people are talking about the possibility of a third world war. That's not good for anybody (except maybe the Halliburton Corporation). Where are we going with this and are the Blood Moons pointing to significant problems that could affect all of us?
YAG: Are you asking for my opinion or are you asking where are we going?
HR: Both. Your opinion would be appreciated.
YAG: My opinion is not that important, because we're heading towards Armageddon. The world is heading towards Armageddon: the final battle between love and hatred. The final battle between Jesus Christ and Anti-Christ. It doesn't matter who is there and it doesn't matter who represents what religion. What's happening in Iraq and Syria - these are individuals who are called ISIS, they are demons, they are enemies of humanity. This is my opinion, this is my reading. I hope you have the same understanding.
HR: Well -
YAG: - Are you scared of what I said?
HR: Yes I am. If you are saying that they're just demons - to me, well, they're not just operating on their own. They are getting support from somewhere. Who knows? People say that maybe they're getting support from the US or maybe Saudi Arabia. Who knows? But they're getting support. So does that also mean that the people involved, that are supporting them are also demons? Mr Lali maybe you could comment on that.
ML: Yes, we are headed towards Armageddon. We are treading a very difficult path: trial, tribulation and all those things. But then the escape is this: spirituality. His Holiness put it very concisely, precisely. When there is going to be the battle between love and the forces hatred, the only escape is if we revive our souls and strengthen them with spirituality. That is the only safe path. At a time like this, it is very critical [to have] the awakening of the West and a safe path to get through the Armageddon, Third World War and all those things. To think of, it's a very scary situation and that is where the importance of spirituality comes in.
H: Listening to what you are saying, I could see our viewers looking like 'Oh my god! The End of the World is near.' Yes, but then again, in the course of our life, the End of the World is always near.
When we are a baby in the womb, we are kind of evolving into being birthed into the world. So then as we become a teenager and then when we become an adult there [is always] a part of us dying and we are evolving into something grander. So is it that possibly now as a collective consciousness, we are at a point where we are ready to embrace a greater role of responsibility? Let's say I as an individual, but then as a community, as a group develop consciousness - is it possible that we can - by simply being ourselves and trusting our heart hopefully that is imprinted with the name of God (after your initiation on Sunday) - that each individual has the ability to switch channels, so to speak, from the fear into love and that in itself gives everybody an opportunity to contribute to avoiding Armageddon? Is that a possibility? Or does it have to happen?
YAG: It's very unfortunate that not all human beings on Earth like to love and like to be loved. Some of our human fellows are into deception. What is happening today in the name of religion is a great deception, wrong interpretation of the religion is being sold out to these people. 13-15 years of age girls from all over the world - Australia, UK, Canada, America - are going to Iraq and Syria and they're become their recruits. They've been told that they're into this divine battle and they will enter heaven - and this and that. All of this is happening under a great deception.
How we contribute to protect ourselves is to raise awareness of spirituality, raise awareness of mutual respect and respect for humanity. Those who are enlightened, no matter what religion they come from, they will form an international group who love peace, who promote peace.
We can contribute towards protection of humanity by giving [the] right interpretation of the religion. By telling these people, 'No, no, no. What you are doing is not mentioned in your holy book. This is a wrong interpretation.' This is what I'm doing. I'm telling people, 'Don't think the Quran will allow you kill another man in the name of God. This is wrong.' Like Hugh Reilly said, there are some people who are supporting these people - are they demon as well? Whoever promotes terrorism, whoever promotes killing of innocent people, do you think they're good people? I don't think so.
HR: Well, you know you talk about Armageddon as the final battle between good and evil. And you said Jesus Christ and the Anti-Christ. That's a concept that is familiar to Christians - the message of Revelation, that sort of thing. So what is going to happen in a sense that every person living through something like that needs to have their own personal strategy for dealing with Armageddon or Apocalypse. Can you maybe give some people some guidance in terms of what they need to do as an individual to navigate the turbulent waters of the Apocalypse?
YAG: I initially thought only people who were born in Muslim families can be made fool out of them and can be dragged into this deceptive Jihad concept. However I was really utterly shocked when white people - Christians, Catholics and others from countries like Australia, UK, have been sold to this idea. There are so many white people converting into their [radicalised religion] and they're killing and beheading people. This is all based on wrong interpretation and deceptive interpretation. If everybody starts the endeavour to know the truth and to come to a point in spirituality where they can see things clearly, I don't think they will go towards this. And they can at least save themselves, their families and their communities.
H: We talked who here in the physical supports such group. Question: in the invisible, we talked about everything being spirit, energy. What goes on behind the obvious? Am I - and this just an example - having a not-so-loving thought about you for whatever reason, will I open myself to energies that I may be utterly unaware of because I lack the education about the spiritual aspects of what it means to be a human being in a physical shell? And can those non-physical vibration entities then lead a human being to do harmful things? Is there more going on than just physical soldiers on the group? What is going on in the invisible?
YAG: That is a very profound question.
H: Well, we have a very profound gentleman to answer the questions, so I thought I would try!
YAG: There goes a lot behind the scenes in the spiritual realms. Whoever is not spiritually protected, in a sense that they do not have divine energy in them, they are open. They are like soft targets for negative forces.
H: So one can become a puppet on a string without knowing it.
YAG: That's true.
H: So people - you were just mentioning, it doesn't matter what race you are, you fall into that.
YAG: They may fall prey.
H: There are people living in countries that don't have their basic needs met, they don't have or don't see opportunity for themselves. And then somebody comes and offers them something - materially speaking even - and that engages them into this conflict. What would you say to these people?
YAG: It is very easy to understand how people fall prey to certain things. For example, Ebola. It is a highly, highly contagious disease. But if somebody is not aware of how he can catch contagious diseases and how this disease spreads - and he is not aware of it, he doesn't know saliva or blood, these things can easily transmit these diseases - he is open to all potential dangers. In a similar way, if you are not protected by divine energies, you are open to becoming a puppet and you are open to be dancing to the tunes of any unknown source.
H: So that begs the question: if there is an unknown source, invisible source that makes me a puppet, are there also the quote on quote 'good guys', loving guys that kind of run interference and have done so?
YAG: In my opinion, it is very unfortunate - however it may be divine strategy - that you have to make effort to connect to divine, however, you do not have to make an effort to be connected to negative forces. This is very unfortunate.
H: But knowledge is power, so now we know.
YAG: Knowledge is not everything.
H: No, but knowing that I have to ask for assistance may be helpful. Thank you.
YAG: Yeah. Knowing is a lot, but sometimes you can only know things that you see with your eyes. Sometimes you cannot see things with your eyes, but they carry the same potential danger.
H: If I may, one more question here: somebody obtains information. This is apparently the age of mediumship and we have so many channels and so many gurus. How does an individual discern what is the mechanism of me now taking this information that I am getting or not? There may be people watching us right now thinking, 'Is this guy for real? I mean he talks about spirituality and I cannot take care of my health, I don't know how to pay my rent and how to take care of my children tomorrow. Unfortunately this is all over North America the same problem as it is in Africa and different parts of Asia as well.
YAG: You know, there are so many different types of energies. One has to go for the authentic energy from God. One must bring God's name and energy inside the heart.
HR: Some people say - I think it says in the Bible that many will come and claim to be false Messiahs. Let's talk a little bit about how one knows that the messages that they are getting - because if there are negative energies around that are coming and animating people - how does one discern that they're getting the true message from the true God?
YAG: It is very simple. If the guy who is giving you the message is real and he is from God, with the help of his energies, you will feel love. You will learn to respect humanity. You will take care of humanity. You will learn to be tolerant and all these things. There will be no negative effect. If the guy who is preaching spirituality is positive, then definitely the effect and the impact of his message, methodologies and spiritual power on people will play a positive role. They will become more beautiful human beings, they will learn to respect human values, they will become more tolerant. If the guy is negative and he represents negative energy, then he will be adding fuel to the fire of hatred which is already reaching the skies.
HR: Some people say that there is going to be an Anti-Christ who comes as an individual person who many will be fooled to believe is actually Christ. I would think that if they are going to do that, they are going to have a lot of positive acts that the people may take to be genuine acts from God but they are actually not. Can you [comment on that]?
YAG: It may appear to be a positive effect but that will be deceptive. It is a sad thing to know that a lot of will be fooled by that Anti-Christ, who will be taken as the Messiah. A lot of people will fall prey to his tricks and he will perform so many miracle-like things that people will be amazed. They will say, 'Oh my gosh, this is the one that we have been awaiting for centuries.' But that will be a deception. In order to protect yourself against that deception, you need to have God's energy here in the heart. This will protect you against all odds, against all deceptions.
HR: Okay. I just want to get back a little bit to the Moon, the Blood Moons and Armageddon that may be coming our way. But also you mentioned Lord Jesus Christ and of course we are talking about His Divine Eminence RA Gohar Shahi. Can you talk a little bit about the relationship between His Divine Eminence and Jesus Christ - because there is obviously a relation here?
YAG: HDE Lord Ra Riaz Gohar Shahi was to appear in these times when Jesus is about to show up. Together they will be fighting the False Messiah, the Anti-Christ. And fighting doesn't mean fighting with the sword. This is a fight that we are involved in now. Energising people with positive energy.
HR: So all the people are also involved in this fight?
YAG: You are also involved, of course. We are also involved in this battle against hatred. Our contribution towards this battle is that we are raising the awareness of positive energy. We are raising the awareness of love, peace and spirituality. We are empowering people with knowledge so that they know what is right and what is wrong. This is a kind of contribution towards this battle. We are very involved.
H: So everybody has the role to play. It is not just that we are waiting for you, the Guru, to come and do it for us.
YAG: Yes, everybody has a role to play. But the more powerful you are, the more powerful role you play.
HR: So of course people in Toronto have the opportunity to come and participate this Sunday. Can you talk a little bit about what will be happening in Toronto?
YAG: We will be discussing the same material: love, peace, how to spiritualise our life and what should religions of the world do today in the wake of what's going on in the eastern sphere of the world. A lot of people are getting killed. And should we react and do we think the reaction is enough? What else should we do in addition to our reaction? How can we help people who have been oppressed? How do we help people who are being oppressed and getting killed? What should be our contribution and how should we protect ourselves? How should we protect our communities? How should we continue to live in a peaceful and amiable environment?
HR: Will everyone who attends get the opportunity to have God's name written on their heart?
YAG: Of course.
HR: And then maybe we can talk a little bit about then once that happened to them what should they expect?
YAG: They should follow up. When the hearts are initiated, there is a practice that they should do. If they do that practice for some time, then they will see the change in their lives. If they do not follow up, if they do not practise, then obviously the process will not start.
HR: Now we don't have a lot of time yet, but I do want to make sure that people know where they need to go on Sunday. Can they just show up at the door?
H: Is it affordable for people to come to your events?
H: Is there a charge for it?
YAG: There is no charge for it.
HR: Now we talk about the relationship between Ra Riaz Gohar Shahi and Jesus Christ. And there are some signs, besides the Blood Moon. Can you talk a little bit about the image of His Divine Eminence on the Moon and how that relates maybe to the Blood Moons?
YAG: The image of HDE Gohar Shahi on the Moon is a live image. The image speaks, heals people and initiates hearts. When people - for example, like now, there are a lot of people in those areas who are fighting for their survival in Syria, Iraq and other countries. If they look at the image of HDE Gohar Shahi on the Moon and they ask the image to help them, the image will help them. One doesn't have to be from any specific religion. This image is to help all humanity without any reservations or prejudice.
H: So helping them - would that be that coincidentally something happens in their situation that gets them out harm's way? Or they may catch a ride somewhere or somebody comes with food and shelter?
YAG: Of course, anything like that can happen.
H: Is coincidence really the invisible world reaching down to us?
YAG: Anything can happen with the help of this image. People have to do it to believe it.
H: So believing and recognising is the key, is what I hear you say.
YAG: Of course. When you ask for help, you will ask for help in need because you believe you will be helped. Obviously, if you are asking for help, you believe help will come. If you are asking for help and help doesn't come, then you won't be asking for help again.
HR: Ask and you shall receive. So we are talking about the Armageddon and the relationship between Ra Riaz Gohar Shahi and Jesus Christ, who are working together to fight the forces of Anti-Christ. Armageddon can be a scary thing for most people. What's going to happen - and yet you are saying that we are definitely going to go through that?
YAG: That's something from God.
HR: I guess that's true because who can really tell what's going to happen.
YAG: We can't do anything about it.
HR: So what does the world look like or what happens after that?
YAG: Armageddon is something like you prosecute criminals. Armageddon is very similar to bringing justice. That's it. And after all these hateful souls are taken care of by Lord Jesus, then utter, complete, thorough peace will be established and there will be no hatred. There will be no fighting, no killing. All people will live in complete harmony, love and peace.
HR: So that's what we really want anyways.
H: So Armageddon may not necessarily hit everybody everywhere. It seems to be purification of certain energies that have held a stranglehold on certain situations, societies, institutions, that type of thing.
YAG: Exactly. What you said is right.
H: To bring things in harmony with universal law.
YAG: It is a process of cleansing.
HR: It is like justice.
YAG: Justice must be done to be seen. That is how it is.
H: Some people even say the Earth is going through what it is going through because we robbed it of its resources, we've been utterly disrespectful and now the Earth is going through its natural cleansing cycle. And yes, depending on if you are sitting on a fault line somewhere or you are close to an ocean, some souls get swept away and caught up in it. Is that something that is going to continue then as well maybe looking at the geology of our home planet?
YAG: After peace is utterly restored, everybody begins to love everybody else and once Jesus has established the Kingdom of God inside the heart and outside in this world, I don't know what they are going to do thereafter. We will have to wait and see.
H: So do you think we will experience that peaceful, tranquil time in our lifetime? Or is it still a couple hundred years away?
YAG: No it's not a couple of hundred years away. It's not far.
HR: So many of us in this room may live to experience that? I guess it's really up to God.
YAG: Maybe. It's up to God. We can just say things that we potentially can understand. 'Oh, obviously it is 7. After one hour, it will be dark.' This is what we are doing.
HR: Well we have just about finished the hour here. I'm just wondering guys, if there is anything you'd like to bring up that we can talk about while we're still here?
S: It's quite heavy discussion for lunchtime! If we finish on a good note - because there is hope. As you are saying, on both sides there's something hidden and something shown working. On the evil side, there's something working behind the scenes. I mean a small band of rebels - I mean it can't happen. There must be something controlling it. And we are seeing both sides of it. And we are seeing the radicalisation of the youngsters who are growing up with the wrong interpretation of Islam - this is why they are getting into these situations.
On the plus side, on the hidden side, it is about the heart - awakening the heart, bringing God into your heart. Then you get the awareness that we all belong to God, we are God's creation. How could you harm God's creation? How could you cut his head off with a knife? This is what it's about.
H: So we wake up from this illusion of being separate from one another.
S: You become united when you have God's love. Then you see that everybody else is a child of God, as you are. And then you can't harm that person; it is impossible.
So that's happening behind the scenes; but in front of the scenes His Holiness is already in the UK, talking to youngsters. Starting the antidote to the radicalisation. He is setting them out with the proper Islam, the true Islam - the true meaning of Islam which is peace. So that's happening on a physical side as well. So there is hope and as we talked about on the Moon, there is the image. If people are really in need, they need healing, they need help, just look to the Moon and ask Lord Ra Riaz and everything will come to them.
HR: That's great and that's a very convenient reminder. You can just look up to the sky at night.
S: Yes and as I said before, it doesn't clash with any religion. It is said in Islam that the Awaited One's image would be on the Moon. It says in the Bible, quite clearly: the Awaited One will come from the clouds but not everyone is going to see a cloud. It means the Moon, it means up in the sky. Everybody can see that image. It doesn't clash with anybody's belief system. It's just a reality; maybe some people were thinking, 'No, I was quite happy when it was in a book, and it was something that might have happened.' But it is going to happen and it's on the Moon physically. So people need to wake up and get the benefits from it.
HR: Okay. And Mr Lali, is there anything that you would like to add?
ML: This Armageddon is a cleansing process. Once the evil forces are eliminated, then we are looking forward to that golden age.
YAG: Golden age. Wow, beautiful.
ML: And the justice will be restored and the Kingdom of God will be established - as His Holiness put it - inside and outside. That's what we are looking forward to.
HR: Your Holiness, maybe you could just give us a final message that you want to leave everyone with before we sign off here today?
YAG: My message is very simple. In the time of adversity, we should look at the image on the moon because this is God's sign and it is to help the entire humanity. We should contribute towards helping loving people no matter religion they come from. At the same time, we should help those members of the youth who are being hammered into their heads wrong interpretations. They are also falling prey to evil tricks. We can just contribute towards the good cause by any source, by any means; verbally, through education or by sharing our energies. Messiah Foundation International is here and we represent humanity, love and peace. We have no enemies; we have friends and the message of love for everybody: for the Jewish community, for the Christian community, for Hindus, for Sikhs - for everybody. We love them all and we want them to share our energies and knowledge. Simple.
HR: That's great and I think that's good because of course people who go into that situation - it's really a lack of hope that causes someone to have such hatred or disrespect for creation, for other people. So the fact that you are bringing this hope - and bringing it to Toronto - is a great thing.