Younus AlGohar on ThatChannel.com's Liquid Lunch programme speaks to Hugh Reilly and Hildegard Gmeiner about the main cause of terrorism: Wahhabism, along with Steve Bell, President of MFI UK and Mir Liaquat Ali, Chairperson of MFI.
Read the transcript below
Hugh: The world has changed a little bit since the last time we were here in Toronto. And so, your Holiness, how do you want to open this conversation? What new information do we need to start thinking about today?
YAG: The world is changing and when we say the world is changing it simply means the people are changing and people are changing in a way that they are going with the flow. They need to understand where they are going, what they are doing and what is good for them, and what is good for society. And that is something that we are going to discuss today. With this continuous change that is coming up, what is it that we must do in order to have a good society, a better peaceful world?
Hugh: I’m just trying to put my finger on what some of the things are that have changed since the last time we were here and of course, we’ve got what’s new in our awareness last time is, in Europe, I guess what we call the refugee crises. Where we’ve got people who are just moving into Europe, whether they’re walking there from the Middle East, whether they are crossing the Mediterranean from Africa. We don’t really feel that here in Canada because we are an ocean away, but some of what I’m perceiving is a little bit of a heightening of racial tension or tension between the migrants and the people who are already in Europe. And you’re in the UK, so you’ve got perhaps even a different experience than mainline Europe, but what are your comments on all that?
YAG: Actually, my views are a little different on this point because we have several things in mind at the same time. Number 1, humanitarian efforts to give refuge to people who have been homeless and they have been compelled to leave their country under different circumstances. The feeling that we should allow refugees to come and settle in our countries, that is one point, it’s good, but then on the other hand, the terrorists who might be coming among all those refugees that is also something that we must be careful about. So, my views are a little different and I am a bit conservative at this point. If I was a politician in the UK, I would be a little tough on refugee policy. This is my understanding. I would be a little tough, I wouldn’t just allow any amount of refugees to pour into my country.
Hugh: That’s a good point. In fact, this is something that I’ve learned from you in the last couple of weeks that we spend a little bit of time together is that there is that you call the Wahhabi from Saudi Arabia, that are fomenting terrorism upon certain people who are open to it. And this is one thing I don’t think in Canada, at least I wasn’t aware of it, and if it’s true, it’s something we need to be mindful of. Because, Canada is very welcoming to new people from other parts of the world. But if, some of those people coming in have malicious intent, then we need to be aware of that, and that’s what you are saying, that some of these people many have malicious intent, and of course we don’t wanna have terrorism. So, if there is that kind of malicious intent then we do need to know about it. And we need to be smart about our immigration and our refugee policies.
Hildegard: What I find interesting is, reading the European languages, the newspapers and the official media as well and what’s on the internet these days. I am wondering what is your intake on the energies on this planet that stir the pot of unrest globally, intentionally to prevent the individuals as well as the collective to access their heart and soul? Just going back to what we learnt on Saturday, this wonderful event that you were at. I understand you are the ambassador of peace, you have been giving lectures at the United Nations, I forgot what the title was but they honoured you with bringing people together, politically, economically, on all levels.
Many voices in Europe that I had the privilege of speaking to, they said, ‘Well hey, the European Union goes and destroys the habitat for people in Africa, makes it impossible for them to make a living, and then we treat them badly.’ What is your insight on the undercurrent, because the one thing is, we have refugees, and now let’s find a scapegoat and unfortunately this is now the Muslim religion, which I think is totally unfair. Because I don’t even believe the people who commit these crimes are not necessarily your average kind of citizen regardless of what religion. What is your insight, if you care to talk about this? Maybe this is not something you want to share but what do you say? Because people really want to know.
YAG: A majority of people who are coming from affected countries as refugees are people in need.
But the problem is, in the guise of those people, there are some individuals who are already radicalised, who follow the Wahhabi mindset and who have this intention of pouring into these civilised countries and creating a chaos.
And not just make it difficult for these countries to accept refugees but also make it difficult for the refugees to find a shelter anywhere else in the world. So, there are some grey areas, where no matter how tight your security or scrutiny may be you can’t just help.
Hugh: Like one of the things, I heard Trump say, that kind of made me - this is before he bombed Syria, mind you - that made me think maybe this was on the right track is that he was talking about, creating the situation, I think you mentioned, Hildegard, in countries like Syria and of course in Africa, where parts of the world where there is a big incentive for people to get out of there and go to the Europe or go to the West. Lets, as a global project, let’s work on making those places, decent places to be so that there is no incentive to leave.Like, if we made Syria peaceful, prosperous, and liveable. And if we made Africa, peaceful, prosperous and liveable then maybe Europeans would wanna go there.
YAG: That’s a wonderful idea I think. Of course people are fleeing from these countries is because they are in trouble. They are desperate to leave. They are seeking shelter, protecting their lives. If these areas become peaceful and the conditions become favourable, I don’t think people would want to go anywhere else, they would want to live there in those countries.
Hugh: Yeah, because that’s their home, that’s their family, their friends.
YAG: That’s a wonderful idea.
Hildegard: So the question is, A) who made these conditions unfavourable? Because it’s obvious to many people that I get to talk to on a daily basis, that is a selected group that has financial interest, in creating trauma, challenges, even the people in North America, Toronto, across Canada, as well as in US, the average citizen is complaining that they can’t make a living. House prices are skyrocketing, especially here. Living wage doesn’t really exist for a lot of people anymore. It’s absolutely necessary now that people have multiple jobs even in Canada, it wasn’t unheard of. So it appears that there is some sort of energy that wants the masses to be stuck in fear. So can we talk about, fear versus love and what are the -[inaudible]- there? Hopefully that gives people some hope.
YAG: It’s a cocktail of intentions, cocktail of different political agendas, international political agendas. People have their invested, political and financial interest. It’s not an individual’s game, it’s a vast field. We, as a member of the common public can only talk, it’s up to the people in the power to make the right decisions and go in the right direction. For example, what he was saying about Donald Trump’s statement that of making Syria and some of the African countries more peaceful and the conditions become favourable, I think that’s a wonderful idea, and if it’s coming from Donald Trump, God is being merciful.
Hugh: Easier said than done though right? To take Africa and make it peaceful and prosperous, or Syria, which is a very difficult situation.
Mir L Ali: It’s a -[inaudible]- like His Holiness Younus AlGohar put it, a cocktail of humungous problems over there. But then, at the same time, some things didn’t change. Meaning the Wahhabi mentality, you know, those who created this problem their interests remain still the same. But coming to Toronto, it seems like we are coming home, away from all those problems. But then, hopefully things do improve somewhat.
Hildegard: So, what would you suggest the individual can do because it can be very easy to get emotionally caught up in all of this propaganda, in fear-mongering, people need to get up in the morning, feed their kids, do what they need to do to survive. What can an individual do to have a more upbeat outlook, in spite of all that is going on.
Mir L Ali: Here in the West, in United States and particularly in Toronto, Canada, things are a little different. Whereas, where there is this crisis, the problem in the Middle East, people are suffering. And I like this Prime Minister of Canada, who said, ‘If everybody else is rejecting you, come over here.’ That is something different. Whereas the asylum seekers are suffering for a long time. And they would rather not go anywhere, stay at their place but things are so tough - but then, we have to watch out for those elements which would cause problems here too.
Hildegard: You have been involved in the Messiah Foundation International for a very long time and I am wondering if you could tell us what inspired you to do so because you had a unique, personal experience too, didn’t you?
Mir L Ali: The inspiration is His Divine Eminence Gohar Shahi and then His Holiness Younus AlGohar. His Divine Eminence left it open in the world, meaning, there is still hope. There is nothing to despair. The sun will rise in the West, it is going to happen. There is a chance for people to understand the methodology, the practical side of it, how you are going to achieve that elusive common platform for everybody which is love. And His Divine Eminence said, ‘Love is contained in the heart.’ Just like water is contained in a glass, so that substance of love is yet to be generated so that the humanity rises above and beyond the religion and those rituals which are creating more differences than the peace of mind.
Hildegard: Would you care to speak a little bit about the ritual to put the heart to a state of peace?
Steve: People are becoming manipulated, they are finding these people that are from a lonely background, they are switching them, they are brainwashing them and they are teaching them to hate, and to kill. But, on the good hand, there is hope. It’s about unification. We have to be globally unified, and the common goal is love, which is what His Holiness Younus AlGohar is teaching. Once you have that love in your heart, you will not want to hate, you will not want to kill. And the methodology of doing that, as you asked, the place of love is the heart. We must reawaken the souls of the heart, we must free the heart.
As His Holiness Younus AlGohar spoke extensively on Saturday, the heart must be free to love. Cleared of everything else, cleared of hatred. It’s about connecting to God and this is what attracted me on this line. Especially Messiah Foundation, it doesn’t matter what religion you come from, doesn’t matter if you don’t follow any religion, this is about connecting to God through your heart and reawakening your souls. This is what the beautiful message is, and unification will only come once we have that common bond of love which is what we are doing. You spoke about society, society starts with a single person, doesn’t it?
Hildegard: Do you think there is other groups, not just Wahhabi, but can it be that there are people all over the world who are socially and economically disenfranchised or disadvantaged and the pot is now boiling over and these are the ones that then will go and look to see what can I do to relieve my personal frustration? Or is it one particular sect that is at risk to be radicalised?
YAG: Well, the world has always been subject to a great amount of injustice, all over the world. And due to this reason, there has been bloodshed, there have been incidents of hatred. However, this organised butchery of mankind was never witnessed as a result of any injustice, done into any country.
This international wave of terrorism is coming from the Wahhabi cult of death.
And then, small incidents in different countries are to be known as hate crimes and it could have been a result of gross injustice or justice done against any individual. There could have been many reasons for the uprise in hate crimes. However, this global terrorism, it is not due to injustice. It is due to hunger of power, becoming superpower.
For example, USA and Russia are both in a race to become superpower. USA is currently the superpower, but Russia is not sitting quietly. Constantly struggling to get the title back. In a similar way, Saudi Arabia, very discreetly, is in the race now. America and other countries are exporting ammunitions and arms, and Saudi Arabia is exporting terrorism. They want to put their flag of ‘La Ilaha llla Allah’ on the White House. They want to put their black flag on the Big Ben, Parliament Houses in London. Everywhere. They want to rule the world, they are going after the End Times predictions that the Muslim leader will rule the entire world. And they think they are true Muslims, so they should be ruling the world.
I am telling you this is the End Times things that they are trying to translate into practicality. This is all Wahhabi school of thought, intolerance or not having the ability to co exist in a society with others. This is all coming from the Wahhabi mindset. I don’t totally rule out the possibility of having hate crimes based on injustice done on different society and different groups of people.
However, this international wave of terrorism is not result of any injustice. It is all due to the fact that this Muslim cult of Wahhabi mindset, they want to rule the world. They want international global caliphate, they want their caliph to be a global leader.
Hugh: I just wanna say, because I find it curious that in 911, for example, the only people that were allowed to travel and fly from the United States were Saudi Arabians.
YAG: And the family members of Osama Bin Laden.
Hugh: Yeah, a little curious. When he was being fingered for the cause of the 911 disasters. Sometimes I think that there might even be something at an higher level that maybe some of the people in the West at the highest level, perhaps Saudi Arabians and perhaps other people in the world are really making the effort to destabilise everything, and make life miserable for normal decent people all over the world. Some of the crimes, in the US and some in the UK, these are not even real terrorist acts, these are people who may have been subject to some kind of mind control, and it’s part of larger operation to destabilise, to pick people against one and another. Do you have any thoughts about that? Maybe it’s a bigger problem than even Wahhabism and pointing the finger at Saudi Arabia.
YAG: I have a friend in England and his name is Steve Reed. He is a member of parliament and sometimes he comes to my restaurant for a political gathering. And I was talking to him and I asked him, 'How do you see this terrorism and what do you think the government should do to stop it?' What he said to me, I take it as an understanding of British politics. He said, ‘This is all about geopolitics.’ And Saudi Arabia is the main sponsor, the main exporter of terrorism. Now, the problem is - there was a problem in Iraq, the West went after Saddam Hussein, and he was finished, and then they thought there was problem in Libya they went after Muammar Gaddafi.
Now, there is a problem for everybody in this world: Saudi Arabia. If NATO and all the Western allied forces take care of the Saudi Royal family who is main sponsor. It’s not the Saudi public, all the oil, all the oil money goes into the pockets of these shayukh of the Royal family. A common Saudi citizen is even deprived of basic necessities of life. It’s just the royal family of that country who has all the wealth of that county in their possession. And they are doing this for whatever reason and the reason is pretty obvious. Now the problem is, the world leaders and so reluctant to take any decisive step, this is because they are the main exporter of oil, and everybody has their vested interest. I do not know how they are going to solve this but the problem is Saudi Arabia and the royal family. If they are taken care of then we are at peace.
Hugh: Now you have mentioned the End Times prophecy, the end times prophecies in the Islamic faith and there’s also end times prophecies in the Christian faith and probably others faiths. Are these the end times?
YAG: End Times? Well, who knows? But we can see some of the clouds telling us stories, like 'We might rain maybe today or tomorrow', and End Times are not pretty far.
Hugh: And maybe thats a big lesson we can all learn, we don't really know for sure if these are the End Times or not, we have our lives to live, we have our decisions we can make today.
YAG: Yeah, but science has solid answers to this question. Science tells us that we are using up the resources, and the climate change and the icebergs melting in the North Pole. And the ultimate source of hydrogen, the Sun, is using up its energies and the UV rays are becoming even worse than before. The UV rays here in Canada is 7 as compared to the UK where there is only 1.
So, we are using up the universal resources, which can indicate the fact that, yeah, the End Times are not pretty far.
Hildegard: Master Paul Acuna from the Universal Brotherhood mentioned his interpretation was that End times could very well be shifted in conscientization so that humanity really threw the devastation we have created, we are actually needing these challenges to become conscious. What is your take on that His Holiness?
YAG: Master Paul is a wonderful man and a wonderful master, he must have a very deep insight into it, but I haven’t actually spent time on exploring this point so I am not in a position to comment.
Hildegard: Yeah so some people, when we look at our personal life, when we run against the wall once, we get a little boil in the front head and then we make a different choice and find a more smoother path. So, if this is true for the individual, it’s one of many theories out there maybe that is all in divine order. However, I would like to, if I may one last question regarding putting our heart at ease, can you leave us with a message now towards the end of the first segment that leaves our viewers with a little bit more hope and encouragement. What can they do to keep the emotional waters calm and focus on what they have to do without having a panic attack about what’s going on geopolitically?
YAG: First I would like to tell you that End Times, there is a collective End Times and the individuals end times, we should be more concerned about our end times. Everybody has a different end time. The moment you die, this is your end time. So, we shouldn’t wait, we shouldn’t say, ‘Oh the end times are far.’ That’s the collective End Times when the entire world will perish. Let’s talk about our individuality. When will I die? I can die anytime, anywhere. I am not sure whether I will live for another 10 or 20 years, the world has changed. Maybe I am walking outside the street and I am run over by a bus, or a lorry. So I should always be prepared and I should do what it takes to become a more spiritually energetic person and more enlightened. We shouldn’t wait, we should just start, purifying ourselves enlightening ourselves.