His Holiness Younus AlGohar recently gave an interview with the Daily News on spirituality, Kalki Avatar, terrorism, inner peace and much more.
If you would like to see more pictures from His Holiness's interview, view our Flickr album!
If you would like to see more pictures from His Holiness's interview, view our Flickr album!
The following is a transcript of His Holiness Younus AlGohar's interview with a writer from the Daily News newspaper.
INTERVIEWER: There are certain people who don't believe in anything. So, how can we convince them? How can they benefit from Kalki Avatar Foundation?
If you do not believe in any religion, but you believe in God, you can reap the benefits of spirituality. However, if you do not believe in God, then I'm sorry, we can't help such a person. You can't reap the benefits of spirituality.
But then again, we have to look for the reason why somebody does not believe in God. Because some people have bad experiences in life, and because of those bad experiences, they stop believing in God. When their problems are fixed and when they come under the merciful sight of God, they may start believing in God.
People talk about atheism. I would like to tell you how atheism was established, how it was brought into ideological existence. In the beginning, everybody believed in God. But then, what happened? When individuals who were enlightened (who had contact with God) stopped coming to earth and the fake ones came into the scene (those who did not have any contact with God), they only spoke about religions, they only spoke about God; they could not represent God's mercy, God's beautiful nature to them. Because the people did not receive any benefits from them, therefore they thought, 'There is no God.' It happened because of the lack of contact with God. There was a communication gap.
Initially, people who represented any religion, they were in contact with God. What they taught to the people, with the teachings of these individuals (prophets, messengers and saints), the people who received their teachings and benevolence, they were able to see the manifestation of God. And their hearts were filled with love.
INTERVIEWER: How can you have contact with God? What is the main way?
You see, when the high spiritual personalities that we know today, when they were born, they did not have this power. They went into vigorous austerities and they did a lot of hard work. And then they acquired higher spiritual statuses. In a similar way, there is a special knowledge: the knowledge of spirituality, Gnosticism. Gnosticism is a knowledge with which you are able to recognise God and at the same time you establish a connection with God.
For example, I have a telephone and you have a telephone; your telephone has a network and my telephone has a network. I am here and you are 10 miles away. I will dial your number, and I will say, 'Hello', and you will say, 'Hello,' because you can hear me and I can hear you.
In a similar way, His Divine Lordship Ra Riaz Gohar Shahi tells us that there is a spiritual organ in our body. If that organ in our body is activated and spiritualised, that organ can work between men and God as a divine telephone. This telephone [in your hand] works because there is power and a network connection. In a similar way, that spiritual organ needs God's power - [it] needs divine light and connection with God. And that spiritual organ is the spiritual heart.
We have a fleshy heart - with the two atria and two ventricles - which is a pumping station responsible for purifying blood and oxygenating blood. His Divine Lordship Gohar Shahi says, 'There is a special soul which is sitting on the heart. And this soul, if awakened, is responsible for establishing a divine connection with God.'
INTERVIEWER: So how to awaken the heart?
That is what spirituality is all about. God's name is implanted like a seed in the beating system of the heart. This beating system in the heart generates kinetic energy. This is a spiritual mechanism. Like a car engine works and it makes the car move - but for that engine, we need petrol or diesel. In a similar way, this engine of the heart needs divine light. If there is no petrol or diesel in the engine, it won't work. So, similarly, this telephone with which you can speak with God needs activation.
This needs spiritual diesel, spiritual petrol. But we don't have spiritual petrol. And His Divine Lordship Gohar Shahi says, 'This is the reason why we go to temples, mosques and churches. We worship, we mention the name of God. Why? Because by doing so, we're supposed to obtain divine light.' But what happens? The divine light must be sent. The diesel we buy must be inserted into the engine. If we buy diesel and petrol but we don't put it in the engine, the car will never work! In a similar way, we go to temples and churches, we worship and we make mention of God's name - at the end of which, it generates divine light. But that divine light does not go into the heart. The heart will not work until, unless divine light is put in the heart.
Like the engine is run on diesel or petrol, similarly the heart will run on divine light. I mean, the purpose of going to a temple and church is lost when the result, when the gist of the worship - which is divine light - is not put in the heart. That is why people are not able to communicate with God. That is why people are stopping believing in God. Because all their efforts, all their worship is being lost - because they have lost the knowledge, they have lost contact with God. This is the knowledge, this is the philosophy, this is the true manifestation of God's word, when you know how to make contact with God.
INTERVIEWER: Some people say, 'Forget the knowledge, just have devotion.' With devotion, can they develop some sort of divine power?
No. It doesn't matter how eager I am to drive a car, we definitely need diesel and petrol. Devotion will not work here. We need the right way which is prescribed by God himself. I mean, you can say, 'I am sitting here with devotion; the food will come directly to my mouth,' but it will not happen. You have to buy food, you have to touch the food and put it in your mouth. Only then you will eat. We're not supposed to create our own fabricated, concocted philosophies.
We have to go by the prescription provided by God and messengers. If we develop our own philosophies, we will never get there. Devotion is very good, but with devotion you cannot be in contact with God. You need devotion after you are connected. For example, you can sleep with a woman but only after marriage. Before marriage, if you sleep with that woman, it will be rape and you will go to jail. There are certain things that are only done after certain things. If you do them before those certain things, it becomes illegal.
So devotion is very good but you have to have some kind of connection with the person you
are devoted to. You don't know somebody and you're saying, 'I am devoted to him'? But you don't know him!
INTERVIEWER: In the Mahabharata, Sahadeva was able to do wonders; because of his devotion, he was able to get to Lord Vishnu.
But he is connected. He is talking about himself; he is not talking about a man who doesn't know God, who doesn't want to know God, who only knows his wife, children and who is always busy in his work. He is talking about himself. He is connected, he is a higher person. That is what I was saying: first you get connected with God, then devotion will work better. You must be connected before you are devoted. Do you understand my point?
INTERVIEWER: Yes. So many people claim to be spiritualists. How can common folk recognise the right ones?
You know, back home we say, 'Only a thief will recognise a thief.'
INTERVIEWER: That is true! We also say, 'A thief only will catch another thief.'
[Laughs] Yeah, it takes a thief to catch a thief. You know, without spirituality, a common man who does not know spirituality, can never recognise a true spiritualist.
INTERVIEWER: Yes, you are right. Then how can we say that the Lord Ra Gohar Shahi is the true Kalki Avatar?
I can give you an example. For example, there are certain things that we understand only God can do. If you do it, is it possible that you can do it? I'm asking you a question [directly]. There are certain things that we believe only God can do, but you wake up tomorrow morning and you start doing things that only God can do. What will you understand? You're not God, but you have God's powers. God is with you or in you. So, God is making you do things.
We understand Lord Ra Riaz Gohar Shahi is the true Kalki Avatar because He is doing what the true Kalki Avatar is supposed to do, and nobody else has ever done it. What He is talking about is just love. He is unifying humanity; He is taking people away from hatred and all sorts of religious discrimination. His benevolence is for all humanity, for all religions. He is not talking about religions, He is talking about love: love for all. He is here to bless everybody and His mission and works are splendid; everybody is coming into the fold of divine love. People from all races, people from all nations, people from all countries, all religions are coming into one fold, getting unified, getting united. In this day and age when there is so much hatred in the name of nationality, in the name of race, in the name of religion, with the help of Lord Gohar Shahi's teachings -
INTERVIEWER: - But we talk about the great saints and sages, and ending hatred, jealousy, prejudice etc. But all these bad traits are still there. So how can we stop this?
You see there have been saints and sages in all religions, but they had limited powers and they were not allowed to work outside their religion. They only benefitted the people of their religion. And even if they wanted to bless people of other religions, their religious capacity, or their religion, or people, would not allow it. And even if the people of their religion would allow it, the other people, of the other religion, would not take it.
INTERVIEWER: The great saints and sages should have the capacity to convince the people. But they seem to fail?
The problem is, like I said, these spiritual masters and sages, they had limited power. They did not want to disrupt what they were doing. They did not want unwanted, unnecessary opposition from people. Otherwise, the aim that they were working for would have hurdles and they would not have achieved what they did achieve.
INTERVIEWER: But can you suggest anything to stop this type of violence, hatred, jealousy, etc.? We talk about love, no doubt, but then there is still hatred, jealousy and all these things which disturb man's tranquillity and serenity.
I understand, and it is a great concern today. But this is because we have so many religions, we have so many differences. And these people who are following their religion, their religion is not deeply rooted into their hearts. They're only going to temples; but what their religious teachings suggest them to do, they are not doing it properly. And, the spiritual system in all religions is lost. You see, religion will make you a good man; a good man will never hurt anybody, a good man will never hate anybody. But you will become a good man when negativity in you is put right. When negativity, the source of hatred in you, is removed from you.
By worshipping with the word of mouth, this will not happen. You need spirituality in every religion. Spirituality was part of every religion at one time, but then what happened? Spirituality was lost. Since spirituality was lost in every religion, people stopped becoming good. They became religious; they did not stop going to the temple, they did not stop going to churches and mosques, but they stopped being good. You are good only when your inside is good. If you impose goodness on your body, you will look good, but you are not good.
INTERVIEWER: What if you are good but then someone comes and disturbs your mind and incites hatred in you? How do you maintain tranquillity in you? Like we see so many great men throughout history who went through torture but still maintained serenity in them - such as the philosopher whose wife didn't understand him and gave him a lot of trouble, even living with him for 48 years. You may be a good man, I may be a good man, but somebody can come and disturb. So how to maintain that type of tranquillity with endurance, forbearance and patience?
I am not talking about love only. I am talking about how to obtain love.
INTERVIEWER: But can love be disturbed?
No. Not when you are completely spiritualised. When you're completely spiritualised, then your mind cannot be disturbed by anyone. Let me explain how: there are five souls in your breast, and there is one in your head and there is one down there [pointing to naval area]. These five souls [of the breast] are responsible for the five senses. And then we have this soul down here; this soul down here is the source of negativity. This soul covers half of the body, from here [the naval point] until here [the head]. This soul is evil. Your mind is controlled by this soul.
The place of love is your heart. If there is a little bit of love in your heart and you practise love, but you did not take care of this [negative] soul which is controlling your mind, then you can be disturbed any time, any moment. But when you're completely spiritualised, when you have taken care of this soul, when this soul is spiritualised and when the eternal bliss, eternal tranquillity has been established, when your mind has been set free from the control of evil, when this mind is now under the control of your heart, [and] this mind is now under the control of God - then you will be undisturbed. No matter what happens.
Then, nobody can take you away from your eternal tranquillity. This is an entire system. What is the point, if you are loving God, you have God's love and you are a spiritual man, and then somebody will come and disturb your peace and your entire system? Then it's useless. But this will happen when you haven't reached your goal, when you haven't completely spiritualised your character. This part is very important.
INTERVIEWER: When you are alone, you can maintain this. But in a family, for example, it is difficult because of the distractions.
I agree with you, I am telling you that what you're saying is very real. And it is true, but we have a solution. I have a family and I know how disturbing it is. But what must be done should be done. This mind is controlled by this evil soul. People get disturbed when they have a little love in their heart but their head is not controlled by the heart. As long as this [the head] is controlled by the evil soul, you are 100% likely to be disturbed and you will be distracted, you will be disrupted and can be taken away from your aim. With the help of spirituality, you have to separate your mind from this evil soul. When this mind is controlled by the heart, then you can never be disturbed. And like you said about jealousy, arrogance and all these things - these vices are attached with the souls. When these souls are enlightened, these vices run away from the body. By word of mouth, no matter what you read - you read Bible, you read Quran, you read Bhagvad Gita - by reading these holy texts, you can never get rid of these problems; because these problems are deeply rooted and they're attached with the souls. When the souls are enlightened and activated, only then these vices go away from the body.
INTERVIEWER: How realistic can this be in day to day life?
My approach towards spirituality is very realistic. We don't live in a fantasy world. We know how things can have an effect, how easily one can be distracted. I am also telling you how spirituality can help you and make a greater man out of you. These are the issues that must be addressed. I just told you, when the mind is controlled by the evil - the problem with politics is, that politics doesn't enter your heart, it just stays there [at the head]. And this is controlled by the devil. This is why people are suffering and there is so much injustice in every country. When there is injustice, there is hatred, there is oppression, there is violence.
INTERVIEWER: So what should people who go to temples and pray do [to spiritualise themselves]?
They have to enter themselves before entering the temple. They should know themselves, who they are. You have to enter yourself first.
INTERVIEWER: But, how many people can understand how to develop love?
I think people don't have time for this.
INTERVIEWER: Most of the priests sitting in temples and worship places, they want to make money. They don't know what to do [to be spiritual].
You see, every individual religion will only talk about its group, those who follow that religion. Hindus will talk about Hinduism; there will be a boundary around Hinduism and the people around Hinduism. Muslims will talk about Muslims and there will be a boundary and limitations. These individual religions can never establish a universal brotherhood because they have their own different system.
INTERVIEWER: It is said that religions are not contradictory [to one another], only complementary.
But that’s the basic principle; nobody follows that.
INTERVIEWER: Every religion talks about the truth.
INTERVIEWER: They think they are on the divine path, and we are misled; because whether it is Hinduism or Buddhism or Islam or any religion, they talk about love. They talk about love, but nothing more than that.
I understand that and I totally agree with you, but the thing is, those who are following these religion, they are not truly following it, that’s why there are contradictions. If everybody would follow their religion truly, then they would have got the divine love in their hearts, then there would be no contradictions. But the problem is, they are not truly following their religions.
INTERVIEWER: As you say, the people should be educated. They should know what their religion is.
Spirituality also, because with spirituality, you will become a good man.
INTERVIEWER: You are correct, 100%. As you say, we have to develop spirituality. Once we develop spirituality, no one can shake it.
Lord Ra Riaz Gohar Shahi is not talking about religions. He is talking about purification, enlightenment and divine Love. When everybody has obtained divine love, through that there will be universal brotherhood. He is talking about love. And He is not just talking about love, He is teaching everybody without the limitations.
INTERVIEWER: So, you are saying the brotherhood can be developed through love.
Through love and spirituality. Through love, and love will be obtained through spirituality. Because the message of Lord Ra Riaz is for everybody, even for those who do not practice any religion.
INTERVIEWER: That’s a good point. The very religious people consider themselves to be the only guided ones. What is your point of view in this regard as the Representative of Kalki Avatar?
I believe, when you are connected with God, you can see all other people who are also connected with God. If you think only you are connected and nobody else is connected, I think you are mistaken.
When you are connected with God, you have power to see others. And then, you can see there are so many other people connected with God.
But, when you are not connected with God, you can’t see others; only then you say such things that, 'I am connected, nobody else is connected'. This is a wrong conception, because God can love anybody, in any religion. God can love even those who do not follow any religion. God will not tell you or me, he will not ask permission from you or me whether he can love a Hindu or a Muslim, he can love anybody.
These questions are very good. I am really happy for the questions you are asking.
INTERVIEWER: Today, we see the world is suffering from terrorism and hatred. Can the Kalki Avatar make the society safe from these threats?
Of course. In every speech that I make, I talk about terrorism and I talk about the roots. I say, 'Why do we see terrorism today? What is the cause? What is the root?' This is lack of spirituality, lack of connection with God, lack of understanding of the Holy Text.
When you misunderstand God’s words, the divine word. For example, I can just tell you one example, some Muslims today justify terrorism and they give you the Surah (chapters) and Ayah (verses) from the Quran. They say, 'According to Quran, we should kill all those non-Muslims.' But, I tell you, this is a wrong interpretation.
Because Prophet Mohammad said, ‘Killing one person is equal to killing the entire humanity.’ And then, about suicide bombing, I give you a very good example: Prophet Mohammad was at war with his enemies, and one of his followers was severely injured. One of the followers of Mohammad was severely injured, and he was in pain. He was not able to forebear the pain, so what he did, he cut his throat and he died. But, the Prophet Mohammad did not like it. He said, ‘This man, although he was my follower, but because he committed suicide, this man will enter hell-fire.'
INTERVIEWER: How can a common person approach Kalki Avatar?
Kalki Avatar is for the entire humanity, and there are so many people in this world. If, personally, everybody wants to meet Kalki Avatar, it is not practically possible. Therefore, there are manifestations on the Moon,on Shiv Ling. When the Moon rises every night, you can see the image of Kalki Avatar on the Moon; and this image is able to speak with people, bless people. This is how a common man can reap benefits of the presence of His image. They can speak with the image of Kalki Avatar, they can take blessings from Kalki Avatar and spiritual healing from Kalki Avatar, especially on Poya Day.
INTERVIEWER: Many people talk about End Times. How can we see the future of this world?
End Times are near because the resources of the Earth are getting used up.
INTERVIEWER: Please enlighten us about the doctrine that Kalki Avatar awards to the humankind.
The doctrine of Kalki Avatar is purely on love for everybody but, one more addition: it’s not just talk about love. Kalki Avatar has brought the spiritual methodology by which He is sowing the seed of love in the hearts of all human beings, regardless of their religious, racial or cultural background. He is sowing the seed of love with spirituality. He is making the heart able to love God, He is not just talking about love.
INTERVIEWER: People must have expectations from Kalki Avatar as this mighty personality. Is Kalki Avatar Foundation catering to those expectations of the people?
Well, we are trying our best to take this message to all corners of the globe and those who are becoming part of Kalki Avatar Foundation, they are able to see what we are doing.
INTERVIEWER: Can you give me some facts about Kalki Avatar Foundation?
How it was established, when it was established, and also the activities which have taken place in the foundation?
It was established in the 1980’s. Our activities: we go all around the world, we raise the
awareness of spiritual sciences. We have our offices in different countries of the world. We are based in London, England.
INTERVIEWER: What are the countries?
England, Greece, the United States of America, Canada, Australia, Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong, India, Bangladesh, Taiwan, Bangkok, Malaysia.
INTERVIEWER: So, there are representatives in all these countries?
People from different religions are part of this foundation: Jews, Christians, Hindus, Muslims.
INTERVIEWER: I am very happy to have had the chance to come to see you, because I think it was some sort of divine power that brought me to you.
I am very happy to see you and I am really inspired by your questions. Thank you very much.